In this third episode of Behind the Apps: Mobile Marketing Talks, host David Murphy interviews Michael Hudson, CEO and co-founder of KYLN, to uncover how their groundbreaking platform is transforming mobile game distribution. Mike reveals how KYLN simplifies the complex landscape of app distribution, especially through their unique partnership with AVOW, which seamlessly integrates user acquisition and app distribution—a feat unmatched globally. Discover how KYLN is addressing developers’ challenges and optimizing their reach in a fragmented market, making it easier than ever to connect with global audiences.
Watch the full interview below.
→ Watch the full interview on YouTube
Interview with Michael Hudson, CEO at KYLN
Introduction
David Murphy (Host): Let’s get started and explore what lies Behind the Apps with our special guest today, Mike Hudson, who is CEO and co-founder of KYLN. So Mike, could you give us a bit of background to yourself and about what initially sparked your passion for gaming and ultimately for the mobile gaming space?
Mike Hudson (KYLN): Yeah, sure. Cheers David. I’ve been in the industry now for well over 15 years. I started when I was back in school still, around 12 or 13 years old. I don’t know if I could say I was in the industry at that point, but I was teaching myself how to code, how to design, animate, various (at that point) cartoons, more than anything – and that developed into creating flash-based web games. Eventually, that kind of developed into the business side of things as well, where back then, you could license your games to various gaming websites, and I ended up getting into that scene, licensing my first games for a few hundred dollars, which back then was pretty decent for a 13-year-old at school. Then, eventually, I hit it somewhat big with one game and made about 15-20,000 dollars. From that, I think that’s where I kind of realized, wow, there’s something here and there’s something I’m really interested in and want to kind of pursue. I guess I didn’t really look back beyond that. That just developed over time into the first HTML5 games for the web that I worked on when that technology first arose. That developed into mobile gaming and working within various different niches of the mobile games market, from hypercasual, before that was even a term, it was just arcade games back then, all the way to more free-to-play titles and more involved games as well. So yeah, I guess I’ve been around a little bit in various places within the gaming space, from developing, publishing, all the way to where we are now with distribution within the tech and the SaaS space. It’s been a hell of a journey so far and long may it continue.
Simplifying App Distribution and Removing Integration Hurdles
David Murphy (Host): Well, I’m impressed. A proper child entrepreneur. All I wanted to do at 13 was play football until I got called in and then sneak out and play some more football. So I’m very impressed with your story. Now, before launching KYLN you founded GameBake, a mobile game distribution platform. What motivated you to create that? What were the specific challenges that mobile developers were facing that you were looking to address and how did you do that?
Mike Hudson (KYLN): Originally, I was in the development/publishing space. So that was my original background. For GameBake, we were developing games across many different channels and many different technologies, from web-based games to iOS, Google Play, and Android titles as well. Because of that we always try to improve our own lives within development by building various pieces of technology that allowed us to deploy and develop our games more easily, so we could publish them into as many different channels as possible to build revenue and keep the cash flowing. So we initially developed that technology on our own, through our own hurdles and challenges. But when we eventually founded GameBake, that came about from needing to sit down and focus on one specific thing. For myself, I saw the industry and the market beginning to fragment; it was beginning to open up, and (mobile) OEMs and different app stores, which to be fair for some of them, have been around for a little while already, but they were really starting to double down on growing their stores, growing their own ecosystems. And for me, I kind of felt that’s really the direction I could see the market going. At that time, it was the early days of the Google and Apple lawsuits with Epic, the EU, and so on. So that was only just the beginning, but you could already see the writing on the wall that this market has been sort of a walled garden for so long. And it really was, due at some point, to open up and become a much more fragmented market – but an actual, more open, more transparent market. One with a lot more choice for developers to be able to pick and choose how they acquire their users, where they acquire their users from, and how best to grow their games as well, and how they feel fit, rather than being kind of locked into a very specific and narrow set of channels that they had to work with. So yeah, I think overall, it’s kind of been born out of, somewhat of passion and somewhat of a need from where we were previously in our own time developing games and publishing games. That’s really where this whole technology was born, and that’s led to KYLN, which is a much more premium multi-channel distribution platform, and one that is specifically targeted for the industry as a whole – and that’s really what we’re trying to do at this moment.
Joining Forces with AVOW to Combine App Distribution and User Acquisition
David Murphy (Host): Talk a little bit about your relationship with AVOW and how that came about. Obviously, at GameBake, you were focused on distribution, and AVOW, as many people know, is focused on user acquisition. So, how do these two complementary strengths come together to form KYLN, which is a platform that, after all, offers a more holistic solution for mobile developers?
Mike Hudson (KYLN): When we first started the discussions between GameBake (at the time) and AVOW, I very much saw it as two sides of the same coin. And because of that, as you said, AVOW focused on the UA side of things, and that was the piece that GameBake, now KYLN, was missing; we were missing that part. At the end of the day, we want to focus ourselves on really helping developers and publishers globally to be able to access and deploy to all of these different channels and all of these platforms without the needs and the technical challenges that come with that. We’re trying to really simplify that distribution and make it as quick and easy as possible. That’s where we want to focus our efforts. And once you actually get (your app) on these stores, you need to be able to grow, you need to be able to scale. That’s why the whole discussion with AVOW, and now the partnership that we’ve got together, came about. I think we’re in a position now that really provides something unique in the market. It’s something that isn’t out there right now. It’s what the market has been missing; opening up all of these channels is one thing, and we’re doing that extremely well at KYLN. Together with AVOW, we can now not just open these markets in a really simple fashion but also help all of these game developers and publishers scale profitably across these stores. That’s where this partnership really comes into its own and becomes something that the market is shouting out for, and we’re happy to be a part of the solution. Trying to fix this for the industry and for the market and trying to really open this up to everybody out there.
“Together with AVOW, we can now not just open these markets in a really simple fashion but also help all of these game developers and publishers scale profitably across these stores. That’s where this partnership really comes into its own and becomes something that the market is shouting out for, and we’re happy to be a part of the solution.”
– Mike Hudson from KYLN on their partnership with mobile OEM advertising specialists AVOW
How KYLN Addresses App Distribution Challenges
David Murphy (Host): What are some of the key complexities and challenges typically associated with app distribution, and how does the KYLN platform address these?
Mike Hudson (KYLN): So, the Apple app store, the Google Play store, there’s no hiding, they’re obviously huge, we can’t get away from that. And so we’re not saying forget about those stores, no way in hell, you need to be on these stores, and you should definitely be doing all you can to grow and scale there as well. But it is very hard to stand out in a crowded marketplace. Revenue shares have been a big talking point in the media with the Epic lawsuits and Spotify and many others. I think this is another thing where a lot of developers really haven’t, until now, had the chance to properly negotiate, you know, revenue shares that work better for them and allow them to invest more into their games and into scaling their games as well. So it’s another hurdle that we’ve found, just being able to access and tap into a wider audience. This is something that has really been missing. And of course, the whole integration part is a massive hurdle for many in the industry, from small developers to massive, huge companies and studios out there. No matter the size, integration is always a hurdle because resources are out of premium for everybody, and everybody is lacking time these days. I don’t think that’s just unique to gaming. I think that’s just in general life. Time is definitely something anyone could do a little bit more with. So we’re helping to fix that by removing that technical integration and really allowing developers to diversify their app distribution and manage that day-to-day operation across all of their channels without worrying about the technical side and having to integrate SDKs, as well as updating, managing, and upkeeping them. They can do this now in a much simpler fashion and just focus on what everyone wants to do, which is creating quality games and quality experiences for their users, and, of course, scaling them up and doing that profitably as well. So yeah, we’re trying to take away those big hurdles, and start opening up the market out there.
“So we’re helping to fix that by removing that technical integration and really allowing developers to diversify their app distribution and manage that day-to-day operation across all of their channels without worrying about the technical side and having to integrate SDKs”
– Mike Hudson from KYLN on saving app developers time and effort by removing technical integration challenges
The Importance of Alternative App Stores
David Murphy (Host): Now, when you talk about expanding beyond the mainstream app stores towards these alternative app stores. How important are they in the app distribution landscape?
Mike Hudson (KYLN): I mean, massive. I think a lot of people don’t realize there’s 60% plus of the actual user base using alternative app stores, at least in some capacity, which is a huge segment of the market. As I’ve said, that’s not to say that the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store should be forgotten and dismissed. Definitely not. But there’s a huge user base out there that allows developers to scale their games in less crowded markets. There are many more opportunities and chances for smaller developers, but even big guys as well, to stand out and really own and dominate a particular market segment. Also, it allows working with (mobile) OEMs and many of these different alternative app stores. Some of them are global, of course, such as Samsung and Xiaomi, but there are many others that work either regionally or even in specific markets. This really allows you to open up and be more specific with your user acquisition and grow within markets where you may tend to struggle on the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store. So I think it just opens up more opportunities. Not just to get your game on more app stores, that’s obviously great, but to get it in front of more rivals and give yourself more opportunity to scale up and grow your games with audiences where you might have struggled before on mainstream app stores. So yeah, it’s really just opening the game for everybody and democratizing that, so the developers and the publishers have a choice in what they do, where they do it, and how they do it. And that’s important for us; we don’t want to be in another walled garden, and we don’t want to close this off. We’re trying to make sure that we’re as transparent as we can be. So everybody knows what the revenue shares are, what you can make from these stores, and what the opportunity is as well. Not just commercially in terms of revenue but also where your games are going to be shown, in what markets, and what eyeballs are going to be looking at the games. So yeah, just trying to open it up and make this a much more transparent market for everyone involved.
“I think a lot of people don’t realize there’s 60% plus of the actual user base using alternative app stores, at least in some capacity, which is a huge segment of the market. (…) There are many more opportunities and chances for smaller developers, but even big guys as well, to stand out and really own and dominate a particular market segment”
– Mike Hudson from KYLN on the opportunities of working with mobile OEMs such as Samsung and Xiaomi and their app stores
How KYLN Empowers Mobile Game Developers for App Distribution
David Murphy (Host): You’ve touched on some of this already, but I know that KYLN is a company dedicated to empowering mobile game developers. Can you share some specific ways that you do that? How do you make life easier for mobile brands on the distribution side of things?
Mike Hudson (KYLN): No integrations. I think that’s the biggest one. From all the conversations we have, it either starts off or eventually gets to… what is the SDK we need to integrate? What work have we got to do? And for KYLN, that answer is, no, you don’t need to integrate anything. You know, there’s some admin work, we need to have some sort of idea on purchase IDs and stuff like that for the technology to work. Outside of that, no integration is required, and we’re providing a really simple setup. So, one account for all of your channels. That’s what our goal is, and we’re really working hard to make sure that we achieve that for all of our partners who are working with us. We want it to be sort of that core platform where you can jump in, you can see all of your revenue, you can see your users, your daily active users, monthly active users, see how your stores are performing, and manage each of your stores and games, all from one single place. Just making it a much simpler setup and a much simpler way to manage all of your games across these channels. As I mentioned, transparency, we’re not here to hide anything from anybody. We’re open with what the revenue shares are, and that as a developer, you could get a better revenue share for your games with Samsung, with Huawei, with Xiaomi, and others. We’re all for that. We want to empower the market to be able to take the lead and really negotiate better revenue shares and better terms for themselves and their games. So that’s of massive importance to us. And we want to make sure that’s reflected within the dashboard and on the KYLN platform as a whole. Of course, our partnership with AVOW is massive, really effective UA across all of these different channels. As I mentioned, getting to the app stores is one thing, but running effective UA and being able to do that at scale is obviously the other side of the coin and is massively important as well. And that’s why this partnership has been just pure excitement. It’s brought something unique and really game-changing to the market. And then outside of that, again, the transparency and choice for the developers and publishers. You know, if you don’t want to go to every single platform, every single alternative app store, you don’t have to, that’s completely your choice. We’re not forcing you to go everywhere or nowhere. We’re not forcing you to pick one over another. You know, we’re trying to be completely open in that we want to work with all of the different OEMs stores out there. We want to provide you with a really easy way to get to them, to deploy there, and obviously grow there as well. And outside of that, you know, it’s your choice, you know they’re your games, it’s your business, so we want you to be able to choose what works best for you. And I guess the last thing as well, and it kind of hints back at the no integration, but we don’t require any source code. From big to small, creating games is hard, and no one wants to give away the source code if you don’t have to. And we don’t want that. We don’t want you to be sharing the source code and not just because it’s not safe. Nothing to do with that. We just don’t need it. We want the APK, and that’s all we need from Google Play, and then we can run everything from there. So you don’t need to be sharing anything you don’t want to. You don’t need to be signing away any specific rights or anything for your games. And that kind of goes back to the transparency side of it. We want to make this easy. We want to make this as transparent as possible and make sure that you guys and the developers and publishers out there are just focused on creating great games and scaling them to as many users as possible around the world.
“We want to make this easy (app distribution). We want to make this as transparent as possible and make sure that you guys and the developers and publishers out there are just focused on creating great games and scaling them to as many users as possible around the world.”
– Mike Hudson from KYLN on simplifying app distribution for mobile gaming apps
Preparing for the Future: KYLN’s Strategy for Overcoming Mobile Game Distribution Challenges
David Murphy (Host): Excellent! So looking ahead to the future, what are the challenges and opportunities that you see in the mobile game distribution landscape, particularly those that might lead to frustrations for developers. How are you going to adapt and innovate to continue to solve those challenges and support them in the years to come?
Mike Hudson (KYLN): I think we’ve solved one of the biggest challenges, you know, the integration side of things. That is a massive challenge for developers, no matter whether that’s alternative stores or just a brand new ad network, for example. Integrating new SDKs is always a bit of a pain. We have solved that with the technology we’ve got right now. But definitely a challenge that we see, and we’re working on really hard right now, is just the overall automation. AI, for example, is a massive talking point, and how that can automate so many different areas, and we want to make sure that we’re automating as much as possible for the developers out there. Be it store page creation across all channels, automating the uploading, creating and updating of in-app purchases or ad IDs. All of this stuff is massively important for developers out there, that are trying to not just build games and deploy them, but actually build a business out of them as well. And we’re trying to make sure that all of this is as simple as possible, with the least amount of work possible. We want to keep the workload down and the potential gains as high as possible for everybody. So yeah, I definitely see that as one of our challenges as we kind of move forward and something that we’re working hard to fix. I guess for the market overall, I see it fragmenting more, with more of the OEMs doubling down. I said they doubled down a few years ago; now they’re doubling, doubling down, and really kind of pushing hard with their own stores and their own ecosystems.
David Murphy (Host): They’re quadrupling down. (Laughs)
Mike Hudson (KYLN): (Laughs) And I think you’re finding that, especially where devices now, the hardware, that’s become somewhat a zero-sum game. Most people globally now have got some sort of smartphone and device in their hands, and that’s where we can help the OEMs to expand and push their services and see how they can expand their businesses and grow their businesses as well. So that’s why they’re really doubling down in the app store space, and I think that’s going to create more fragmentation, which is a pain for developers. But I guess that’s why we’re here. That’s what we’re here for, and that’s what we’re here to do, to take that fragmentation and turn it into a positive for the market.
How to Connect with KYLN for Your Mobile Game Distribution Needs
David Murphy (Host): And I can’t let you go without asking you where game developers can go to find out more about KYLN?
Mike Hudson (KYLN): Sure! Website is obviously number one. So that’s KYLN.co. Jump there and have a look and check out the basics about what KYLN is and what we do. And you can reach out from there as well. Otherwise, feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn, Michael A. Hudson, and we can definitely have a chat and talk more about distribution, your games, what you’re looking for, and how we can help you to develop, deploy and scale your games across all of these different markets. That’s definitely the best way to reach out and get in contact and see what we can do for you.
Ready to simplify your app distribution? Visit KYLN.co to learn more about how KYLN can transform your mobile game distribution strategy.
Looking to boost your mobile game’s user acquisition efforts? Contact AVOW for expert mobile OEM advertising solutions in user acquisition and app growth.
Editor’s Note: The interview text has been lightly edited for clarity and coherence. Watch the full interview on YouTube.
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